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An (American) Fiat mystery
Tim Ruth sent an email about his car he is trying to identify. The brass place has f-7041 on it and he is pretty sure it is an American Fiat.
Wheelbase is 140 inch, a 7 passenger car. The engine is a massive 9 liter 4 cylinder and has dual ignition by Bosch. The engine has 10-8-16 stamped on the block.
His email: '22 yrs ago I saw this car in a barn. I checked on it 2 years ago and the lady said her dad owned it [the man pictured]; she said she would only sell it to someone in the family. The family came from Italy in late 1800/s and they were farmers. The man got this car through a business deal from one of his customers.
After her father passed away, the woman kept it in her barn but never sold it. 2 Years ago, when I visited her, she said her cousin wanted it and my heart sank. But just a month later she called and said he was dragging his feet and if I wanted it; she would sell it to me. So I bought it July 2015 and I've been working on it since and am trying to get info. The lady I bought it from said it's always been called a 1918 but she doesn't know why. When I bought the car the lady said she had a registry that stated 11 of these were built before they closed the plant in Poughkeepsie, NY cause of the war. She also had a title but her sister had Alzheimer's for 11 yrs and during that time it is believed that unawares her sister threw these documents away. I honestly believe this car is the only one left, at least there is no other one pictured on the internet and I've been unable to find anyone in this world that has one like this or can even tell me the year.
The brass id plate on the interior firewall has f-7041 which mean nothing to anyone in this world. Why would fiat put a stamped brass plate on a vehicle and it means nothing is beyond me.'
Who can help Tim with more information about this impressive car?
Published:
Friday May 21st, 2021
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Comments
Larry Lewis
26 May 2021, 01:04
John Kropf
25 May 2021, 08:28
My grandfather had a 1915 FIAT TIPO 56. I have some pics and the plate from the radiator. I've always wanted to see one if they still exist.
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davide rizzi
11 November 2020, 21:38
Good evening Tim, I am an Italian enthusiast of old Fiat, I was wondering if he had managed to complete the restoration of this magnificent fiat Davide
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Tim Ruth
10 November 2023, 17:45
Yes, still working on it. I've got the motor running and am putting it back together rather slowly.
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Unknown
19 October 2017, 18:13
hey LEY Fredy if from the previous article you are referring to you can tell me what year car it is please tell me???? im all ears
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Unknown
20 September 2017, 04:40
The wheelbase of the subject car is quoted by Tim as 140". Kimes' Encyclopedia of American Cars 1805-1942 is an excellent reference and indicates that the Model 55 with that wheelbase was available in 1917-1918. Now we know at least one was built on the 140" wheelbase.
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tim ruth
19 September 2017, 18:29
daniel is there any contact info you have on the 4 other fiats like mine that you know of? id love to converse w them
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Unknown
19 September 2017, 17:56
hello folks thanks for the posts ive been trying to track info on the jess willard mystery car he was a kansas farmer and the man in my pic is a memphis farmer and was purchased through a business deal [i think possibly its the same car] does anyone know what f-7041 means? if anyone has a car like this could you please post a picture please and yes i will post more pics of this cars coming back to life anyone know what year it is w some kinda way to prove it?
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Unknown
19 September 2017, 17:26
ps the Robert Dluhly book that lists all pre WW1 cars produced in the US shows no 140 inch wheelbase. That list stops in 1915. I know the 135 inch Tipo 56 was offered with a long wheelbase. It is entirely possible that such left over 140 inch chassis were fitted with unsold Tipo 55 engines in 1918 as Tipo 55s instead of the standard 128 inch wheelbase, but I cannot confirm that.
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Unknown
19 September 2017, 17:20
As promised here is more information on the Tipo 55. In 1909 Fiat like many other European companies decided to build a US factory to build certain big engined models to escape punitive import duties. While technically open until 1918 it is unclear if any cars were actually built after 1916, and almost certainly none after the US entered the war in 1917. While a 1918 model was catalogued, any cars sold as such were either built earlier and unsold or assembled from existing parts. Thus while your car may have been sold as a 1918 model, the engine and plate numbers suggest 1916-17 production. Only 4 models were built in Poughkeepsie, and as the wheelbase of each one was different it would be very easy to verify that yours is indeed a Tipo 55 (equivalent to the Italian Tipo 5) by its 128 inch wheelbase. It had a 551 ci. 4 cyl engine (9.02 litres), the biggest production engine produced by Fiat. The other models were the longer Tipo 56 (1912-16) but with a slightly smaller 522 ci. 6 cylinder engine unique to the Poughkeepsie factory with a 135 inch wheelbase; the smaller Tipo 54 (Tipo 4) 348 ci. (built 1910-1914) with a 124 inch wheelbase; and the even smaller Tipo 53 (1914-1917 ) 268 ci. with a 116 inch wheelbase. The Tipo 55 and 56 were expensive cars at around $3500-4500 depending on coach work when the average Model T was around $550 and the most expensive cars sold were in the $6,000 range. My car, with a light roadster body cruises at 70 mph with a top speed well above that. While rare there are a few Tipo 55s and Tipo 5s around to the extent that two batches of spare engine blocks were produced in the Uk (not as good) and later in the US. Hope that helps. Contact me if you get the car.
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Tim Ruth
10 November 2023, 17:51
Thanks for the information. I called this Fiat 1918 because the seller was quite positive, but with no documentation and numbers I've concluded it could be '16, '17 or '18. It does have a 1916 stamp on the rear jug driver side of the engine, could it have been built in '18 with leftover parts from before the New York plant shut down?
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Unknown
19 September 2017, 13:05
Why Tim Ruth asking the question again ?
While he had already the answer here :
http://www.prewarcar.com/magazine/previous-features/seeking-info-on-this-fiat-touring-update-1914-type-e17-type-56-52b-027675-2.html
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While he had already the answer here :
http://www.prewarcar.com/magazine/previous-features/seeking-info-on-this-fiat-touring-update-1914-type-e17-type-56-52b-027675-2.html
Unknown
19 September 2017, 10:12
Jay Lenno owns one that he acquired from a Dr. Stanely after he passed. The car was in Clearwater, Fl
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Unknown
19 September 2017, 01:47
For some reason, my comment of yesterday, did not get through.
An identical car, was identified previously, on PWC when researching the Jess Willard mystery car, as a Fiat tipo 505.
http://www.prewarcar.com/magazine/un-solved-mysteries/the-jess-willard-mystery-updateii-1914-fiat-not-tipo-55-but-tipo-505-br-update-on-jess-jackson-in-a-1910-chalmers-003494.html
Read more
An identical car, was identified previously, on PWC when researching the Jess Willard mystery car, as a Fiat tipo 505.
http://www.prewarcar.com/magazine/un-solved-mysteries/the-jess-willard-mystery-updateii-1914-fiat-not-tipo-55-but-tipo-505-br-update-on-jess-jackson-in-a-1910-chalmers-003494.html
Unknown
18 September 2017, 15:21
There was one out of the Cameron Peck collection here in Minnesota for many years. I chased it but it got away to a buddy of mine, who then sold it on. Where it is now?
It was a pale yellow, with steel spoke wheels and a Opera top. The motor needed a lot of workm having been frozen with water at some point.
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It was a pale yellow, with steel spoke wheels and a Opera top. The motor needed a lot of workm having been frozen with water at some point.
Unknown
18 September 2017, 12:57
Bill - that block would be 8th November 1916 if its American origin not 10th August. Our continental cousins write their month first and day second. It's taking me a long time to get used to it. Regards from Charleston SC. Nice car by the way. Chris
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Unknown
18 September 2017, 10:25
Love the Westinghouse shocks on the front end. I have the same on my 1917 Lancia Theta.
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Unknown
18 September 2017, 05:58
As far as I can see the only FIAT built in America with a 140" wheelbase was the 1917-1918
4-cylinder 42hp Type 55 with a factory price of US$4850. You are one lucky man!!!
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4-cylinder 42hp Type 55 with a factory price of US$4850. You are one lucky man!!!
Unknown
18 September 2017, 04:00
ps. These cars came with 3 different style radiators. I tried to post pictures of my identical radiator but could figure out how to post pictures here. I will have more details on production, specifications etc, but mechanically these cars were identical to the Tipo 5 built in Italy, of which several also survive. The only unique model built at the short-lived Poughkeepsie factory was the larger Tipo 56.
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Unknown
18 September 2017, 03:52
Hi Tim.
Your car is a Fiat Tipo 55 built in Poughkeepsie. I have had one for decades and know of at least 4 others. I will post more later as it's almost midnight. The brass ID on the interior firewall is also correct. There's one on my car too.
Daniel Ghose
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Your car is a Fiat Tipo 55 built in Poughkeepsie. I have had one for decades and know of at least 4 others. I will post more later as it's almost midnight. The brass ID on the interior firewall is also correct. There's one on my car too.
Daniel Ghose
Unknown
18 September 2017, 02:34
The Fiat 55 introduced in 1913 was a 9 litre 4 cylinder of 130 x 170mm.
The Motor Age of November 21st 1912 gives details including photos of the engine
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The Motor Age of November 21st 1912 gives details including photos of the engine
1-A pencil rubbing of the chassis plate showing the relevant numbers, but I imagine digital photographs might be acceptable.
2-A valid proof of insurance
3- A registered letter to the former owner, but this can be to a friend who will have it stamped "return to sender"- this is proof that you tried to contact the previous owner. The letter must be addressed to the previous owner but the address can be anyone's.
4-A notarized document stating the above conditions and stating that the car can be put on the road.
I did this for my 1954 Citroen that had never been registered before in New York as well as a 1972 Mercedes that also was never registered in New York.